Horizontal Machining Centers are a popular choice in machining centers today. Designed for production and accuracy, these machines can reduce cycle times greatly and eliminate multiple part setups all while increasing tool life and part accuracy. Adding the capability of multi sided machining and natural chip flow these machines can make short work of precise parts and lend themselves to better production quantities and part repeatability.
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Before we can delve too deeply into the advantages of Horizontal Machining it is important to understand the differences between this machine and the traditional style, Vertical Machining. As both of these types of machines share a common CNC Controller, Tool Exchanger and a few other features it is important to set what differentiates them from one another and more importantly, what advantage to the CNC Machinist this presents.
What Is Horizontal Machining?
Horizontal Machining Center Machine Design
A Horizontal Machining Center is a machine that utilizes a spindle setup that is parallel to the floor as opposed to being perpendicular to it. Often designed with multiple part pallets these machines are capable of maintaining more spindle “ON” time as parts are removed and replaced outside of the working zone and while the spindle is in process, machining away. Further this design often includes a more robust tool changer allowing for increased tool capacities for more complex operations or even better yet, redundant tools that are applied after a certain number of cycles whereas the primary tool is “retired”. Lastly this design is simply more robust than the Vertical Machining Center Design as components are heavier providing a more rigid design reducing tool vibration.
Chip Flow
The design of a Horizontal Machining Center also lends itself to rapid chip removal from the cutting zone. Due to the machining surface being held at a vertical plane, the chip flow naturally falls off the machined surface and away from the cutting area, further saving time from necessary chip removal. Most Horizontal Machining Centers are equipped with dual augers or chip conveyors to then quickly remove the scrap material away from the working zone and out into a collection bin for easy waste recycling.
Rotating Pallet
The machined parts on a Horizontal Machining Center are typically mounted on a pallet that is exchanged from inside the workzone to outside for setup and part removal. These pallets can have a variety of fixtures on them to assist in holding one or more parts securely for presentation to the spindle for the machining work. These pallets, while inside the working zone, can also be rotated and depending on the machine, either indexed 90°, or at a lower value of 1° or even at a continuous rate of rotation allowing for 360,000° of motion. This rotating effect allows for at least 3 sides of machining to be possible during one setup thereby increasing part accuracy and eliminating manual part setups.
Advantages Horizontal Machining Center
- Rigidity = Better Tool Life, Part Finish, Accuracy
- Faster = Generally the Horizontal has a much faster cycle time.
- Multi Sided Machining Capability = Less Set Ups
Chip Flow = Less Tool Breaks and Stoppage
- Automated Design = Exchange parts on the exterior while the machine continues in operation.
Disadvantages Horizontal Machining Center
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- Price
- Travels/Work Zone Capacity
- Requires More Floor Space
- Fixturing is usually more expensive
What Is Vertical Machining?
Vertical Machining Center Machine Design
A Vertical Machining Center is a CNC Controlled milling machine with a spindle orientation perpendicular to the floor. These are the most common machines found in almost every machine shop in the world. They are often designed with a small tool changer capable of holding 20-30 tools and a single table that must be unloaded and reloaded while the machine cycle is paused. They do provide better visibility than their horizontal cousins and generally they are priced ½ - 2/3rds that of a Horizontal Machining Center. Although these machines are CNC controlled, providing some level of automation, they are not generally run unattended as machine cycle time and chip management (cleanup) requires a more vigilant operation.
Vertical Machining Center Options
While a Vertical Machining Center may have its design flaws, it certainly can be optioned up with many features to make it more versatile. Features available such as probing, rotary tables, larger tool changers, pallet exchange systems etc. all can add value to and keep the spindle rotating on these systems but it is important to note that a well optioned Vertical can often surpass the price of an equally equipped Horizontal.
Advantages Vertical Machining Center
- Price
- Larger Work Area
- Visibility
- Versatility
- Fixturing Cost
Disadvantages Vertical Machining Center
- Chip Build Up
- Less Rigid
- Slower machining cycle times in general
How to Find the Right Fit: Horizontal Machining Center (HMC) vs. Vertical Machining Center (VMC)
There are several key factors to include when deciding on which machining system is right for you. First off is the size of your parts as the smaller they are the more they lend themselves to being easily fixtured in a Horizontal Machining System. Next is part quantity, the higher the required part quantity the more a Horizontal Machining Center makes sense as they are just better suited for production runs. Also you will need to consider your Floor Space available as a Horizontal Machining Center can take up 1.5-2X the space of an equivalent traveling Vertical Machine. Lastly you will need to consider your budget, as a well equipped Horizontal Machining Center can be 2-3X that of an equivalent capacity Vertical
5 Reasons to Choose Horizontal Machining Centers Over Vertical Machining
In general whenever you can afford a Horizontal Machining Center you should consider it strongly as the benefits far outweigh the negatives. You will enjoy faster crystal times, less tool wear and breakage, better finishes and part accuracy and more spindle ON time. However if you're still not sure there are a few quick and simple checks you can make to see if a horizontal machining center is right for you.
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- Part Size: Smaller leans more to Horizontal
- Quantity: The more, The easier to justify the Horizontal
- Part Accuracy: With fewer setups required & multi-sided machining capabilities the Horizontal is an easy favorite.
- Floor Space: Can you afford the floor space for a Horizontal?
- Price: Although more expensive a Horizontal can quickly make up the price difference in throughput.
Hey gang, I know it's kind of a general question, but I did search the forum a bit before posting this, so bear with me.
I'm looking at used VMCs from a couple of different brokers, and one guy happened to say: "Hey, would you be interested in a Horizontal instead? It's got more HP, more RPM, twice the tool pockets, 50 Taper, and it comes with 3 pallets and a pallet changer."
So of course I say: "How much?"
I kind of blinked at his answer: for a machine from a similar year and manufacturer quality to what I was looking at, the horizontal was only a couple of bucks more than the VMC, which, on paper, looks like about half as much machine.
So I got suspicious, figured this was a lemon, and looked around to see if the price was ridiculous. It wasn't - this seemed to be the case across the board.
So I've got to ask all the much better informed than me PM members: what's the deal with horizontal machining centers that makes them so much cheaper on the used market than verticals? Are guys just not used to them? Are they a nightmare to run? Because 60 tools, 50 HP, 50 Taper with a pallet changer sounds like a dream...on paper. Right?
The cost and time of tearing down, moving and setting up a 40,000 lb horizontal with a pallet changer , tool changer, spindle chiller, coolant tank, TSC pumps etc, especially an older one used in a shop, packed with chips, oil crap etc, is not for the faint of heart. When you set everything back up, all prox switches, tool changer, pallet changer etc all have to be happy again. Not to mention the drives and all the other fragile connections that just got bounced across the highway for some odd miles. If you decide to go this route I cannot stress enough how important it is to thoroughly inspect, run, check for lost motion, download parameters,run some of your parts on the machine if possible etc,etc, etc, you just cant do enough to cover all your bases.I learned the hard way,its a long story.
Some brands had a couple of generations of horizontals that can be an issue (I hate to say it, but it was Haas - just in case that's what was offered).
I actually used to work in a shop that had a Haas horizontal - it wasn't a great machine.
I'm not a Haas basher, but I also think they're way overvalued in the used market because of how accessible/familiar they are.
The first horizontal the guy pointed me towards is a Doosan, but now that my eyes are open to the market, there's a lot of stuff out there in the same price range.
Just found a freaking 03 Matsuura H.Plus-630 4-axis with a 240(!?) ATC for less money than what a similar work-envelope, similar year Haas VMC goes for. The Matsuura has more RPM, more HP, etc., etc....it's enough to make me think anyway.
The cost and time of tearing down, moving and setting up a 40,000 lb horizontal with a pallet changer , tool changer, spindle chiller, coolant tank, TSC pumps etc, especially an older one used in a shop, packed with chips, oil crap etc, is not for the faint of heart. When you set everything back up, all prox switches, tool changer, pallet changer etc all have to be happy again. Not to mention the drives and all the other fragile connections that just got bounced across the highway for some odd miles. If you decide to go this route I cannot stress enough how important it is to thoroughly inspect, run, check for lost motion, download parameters,run some of your parts on the machine if possible etc,etc, etc, you just cant do enough to cover all your bases.I learned the hard way,its a long story.
I was kind of thinking this to myself as I looked at the size of a 240 ATC, and saw the weight of the machine - 21 tons.
The only saving grace is that I'm a full-time custom automation guy, so that process is a big part of what I do all the time. I think it's going to be a huge consideration though, you're right about that.
Thanks!
Horizontals need usually more fixtures, tomb stones, angle blocks, etc
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often no need to blow out holes before tapping, depends on material.
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rotary table can be useful for angles.
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pallet loading as picture shows mdi commands cannot be stopped short of estop. can press feed hold all you want and does nothing.
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roof spray of coolant like fire hose sprays chips to bottom auger so often less chip problems.
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i use for low volumes often make parts in lots of 2 at a time. if you got pallet setup station so you can setup fixture while another pallet in machine running program it is more efficient. setup pallets go in storage racks. 23 year old machines. about once a day the pallets going in racks need a wiggle by hand to get locking pin to register locked so robot will back away. maintenance issues are more only cause more to system so more that can go wrong
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wouldnt surprise me pallet loading system and storage racks cost as much as the horizontal cnc. a 1 meter square pallet wouldnt surprise me if $10,000 each so having 50 pallets can cost
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A shop I work with runs big volume on HMCs with pallet pools. Last year they sold 3 5 year old machines that had 40,000 hours each of spindle on time. That's nearly 24/7 operation.
And the paint still looked like new. A couple had had serious crashes, spindles replaced, etc. They were replacing with new because maintenance costs were getting high.
This ^ happens. I bought a ~6 year old 10 pallet Okuma MC50H horizontal for IIRC, $20k. The way oil line running through the flex track to the Z axis had broken causing the Turcite on the Z and X axes to fail. The seller knew it and was just wanting to get rid of it and we only wanted it for the 10 pallets and parts to keep the 5 other MC50H and MC60H machines we had running.
This ^ happens. I bought a ~6 year old 10 pallet Okuma MC50H horizontal for IIRC, $20k. The way oil line running through the flex track to the Z axis had broken causing the Turcite on the Z and X axes to fail. The seller knew it and was just wanting to get rid of it and we only wanted it for the 10 pallets and parts to keep the 5 other MC50H and MC60H machines we had running.
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i use 3 horizontals and the 23 year old rougher has worn turcite. like circular milling bore i expect it to be out of round .005"
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my finisher horizontal cnc only used for finishing (light cuts) after 23 years it has some turcite wear and rotary table problems. holding ." tolerances is a daily struggle. its the reason my company is spending $2,000,000 for a new horizontal cnc finisher
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i would ask what type of machining was done on the machine. high hp roughing is tough on any machine
I am a huge fan of Mazak horizontals. I run small quantities of parts 5-200 mostly.
The problem is that if you buy one for $80,000 used and it was $300,000 new the parts are still for a $300,000 machine. The cost of repair and maintenance is easily 3x what a vertical will be. A spindle rebuild can easily be $20,000+ and ball screws $6,000 plus. I wouldn't trade my Mazak PFH- for anything though. I paid about $150,000 for it when it was 4 years old. I love the thing but I have spent over $40,000 on repairs and upgrades in the last 7 years and plan to spend another $10,000 this year. I try to keep it at near new accuracies.
I am a huge fan of Mazak horizontals. I run small quantities of parts 5-200 mostly.
The problem is that if you buy one for $80,000 used and it was $300,000 new the parts are still for a $300,000 machine. The cost of repair and maintenance is easily 3x what a vertical will be. A spindle rebuild can easily be $20,000+ and ball screws $6,000 plus. I wouldn't trade my Mazak PFH- for anything though. I paid about $150,000 for it when it was 4 years old. I love the thing but I have spent over $40,000 on repairs and upgrades in the last 7 years and plan to spend another $10,000 this year. I try to keep it at near new accuracies.
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i got Toyoda CNC's Bn25a and FH100's and they got electronic chip in tool holder to auto read tool data from offline parlec tool setter through computer network.
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the chip is glued in shallow flat bottom hole in tool holder. they dont make the chips anymore. any new tool holder got to tell cnc what tool holder (serial number) it has in pocket. so electronic parts are the hardest to get as often no longer made short of ordering specially made at $100 each. electronic stuff not unusual to spend $10,000 just to setup to make a electronic part thats in addition to charge for each part made. sure each part is cheap if you have 10,000 made but who is going to do that
The problem is that if you buy one for $80,000 used and it was $300,000 new the parts are still for a $300,000 machine.
I've met a lot of really smart people who just cannot understand this. They think that because a machine has depreciated to a price they can afford, that parts and service should also have depreciated. It just doesn't work that way.
Actually, parts costs often increase due to lower and lower volume as the machines age. Service costs can also increase as it get harder to find anyone with experience on older machines. There will be less documentation and it's harder to get answers when things don't work.
Yea those older Masuuras are great, but what control is on it? That's where you can really take it in the shorts.
Gary
I actually used to work in a shop that had a Haas horizontal - it wasn't a great machine.
I'm not a Haas basher, but I also think they're way overvalued in the used market because of how accessible/familiar they are.
The first horizontal the guy pointed me towards is a Doosan, but now that my eyes are open to the market, there's a lot of stuff out there in the same price range.
Just found a freaking 03 Matsuura H.Plus-630 4-axis with a 240(!?) ATC for less money than what a similar work-envelope, similar year Haas VMC goes for. The Matsuura has more RPM, more HP, etc., etc....it's enough to make me think anyway.
I've met a lot of really smart people who just cannot understand this. They think that because a machine has depreciated to a price they can afford, that parts and service should also have depreciated. It just doesn't work that way.
Actually, parts costs often increase due to lower and lower volume as the machines age. Service costs can also increase as it get harder to find anyone with experience on older machines. There will be less documentation and it's harder to get answers when things don't work.
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i agree. spare parts are much more expensive as often they are no longer made. supply and demand. computer boards with "problem" have been known to shut down a cnc every week running a program or even not doing anything. some computer board "repairs" at $150/hr and even spending $. or more for repair they are often no way to test short of putting in a cnc and running it. and often the repaired board was not fixed. like mechanic changing car battery on car when dead battery was caused by a wire shorting out. often wrong item is replaced and problem not fixed
..... machine manuals often over pages are a basic requirement. i remember a really simple cnc with only 40 page manual cause i did not have the manual i could not even get into jog mode. had to press axis like X and hold in for 3 seconds to put in jog mode. a lot of old machines you got to press 2 or 3 buttons in at the same time. like a combination safe you do not know combination you can be trying easily 10 years and never get working. adjusting machine parameters you need a good tech guy. literally can have average mechanic try to repair a week and not fix and then right tech guy can have machine working in a hour, i have seen that many times